Creating Strong, Supportive Buddhist Communities – NeeWern Khoo

Treasure Mountain Podcast
Treasure Mountain Podcast
Creating Strong, Supportive Buddhist Communities - NeeWern Khoo
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In this episode I wanted to talk about the importance of community when it comes to both finding the Path of Practice, but also in terms of having the support to stick with it and to grow with it. I’ve been practicing Buddhism for thirty years and I have a lot of contacts in Western Buddhist groups. And whilst these groups and these individuals are doing amazing work to establish the Buddha Sasana in the West, no group that I’ve seen has really got the amount of social coordination and support as groups in traditional Buddhist communities in the East.

So for this episode I’ve invited NeeWern Khoo who has been involved with the Buddhist Gem Fellowship in Malaysia for many years, and more recently with the Centre for Research and Dhamma Leadership Enhancement.

NeeWern first encountered Buddhism in his early teens whilst reading about the Life of the Buddha in a bookstore. His interest led him to join the Subang Jaya Buddhist Association, and subsequently played a pioneering role in the setting up of the Youth Section of the SJBA. He has participated in and taken the lead in various Buddhist youth programmes and is a past Chairman of the Inter-College and Varsity Camp by the Buddhist Gem Fellowship (BGF). He was also a committee member of the BGF in charge of the Learning & Development portfolio.

NeeWern is currently Head of Dhamma Leadership Development under the Centre for Research and Dhamma Leadership Enhancement (CRADLE for short) which aims to bring transformation to the Buddhist community through developing and enhancing Buddhist leadership. As you can see NeeWern has decades of experience in terms of being involved in and supporting Buddhist communities in Malaysia. So join us as we learn about creating and sustaining strong, supportive Buddhist communities.

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NeeWern Khoo
Interview
2023-07-13
Robot Generated Transcription
Sol
0:01
Welcome to Treasure Mountain, the podcast that inspires and guides us to find the treasure within human experience. I’m your host. Sol hannah in this episode, I wanted to talk about the importance of community when it comes to both finding the path of practice, but also in terms of having the support to stick with it and to grow with it. I’ve been practicing Buddhism for 30 years, and I have had a lot of contacts in Western Buddhist groups. And whilst these groups and these individuals are doing amazing work to establish the Buddhist Asana in the west, no group that I’ve seen has really got the amount of social coordination and support as groups in traditional Buddhist communities in the east. So for this episode, I’ve invited NeeWern Khoo, who has been involved with the Buddhist Gem Fellowship in Malaysia for many years, and more recently with the center for Research and Dhamma Leadership Enhancement. NeeWern first encountered Buddhism in his early teens whilst reading about the life of the Buddha in a bookstore. His interest led him to join the Subangjaya Buddhist Association and subsequently played a pioneering role in setting up the youth section of the SGBA. He has participated in and taken the lead in various Buddhist youth programs and is a past chairman of the Inter College and Varsity Camp of the Buddhist Gem Fellowship, the BGF. He was also a committee member of the BGF in charge of the Learning and Development Portfolio, and we’ll be learning more about the BGF in this interview. NeeWern is currently the head of Dhamma Leadership Development under the center for Research and Dhamma Leadership Enhancement, or Cradle for Short, and this aims to bring transformation to Buddhist community through developing and enhancing Buddhist leadership. And as you can see, NeeWern has decades of experience in terms of being involved in and supporting Buddhist communities in Malaysia. So join us as we learn about creating and sustaining strong, supportive Buddhist communities.
Sol
2:05
You. Welcome to Treasure Mountain Podcast. N
ee
w
ern, how are you today?
NeeWern
2:11
I’m good, Saul. Thank you for having me. It’s privilege and honor to be on your show here. We’re
Sol
2:19
so pleased that you’ve taken the time to join us, and I’m really looking forward to finding out what you know about building strong Buddhist communities. Look, I’m glad that you’ve joined us today because I think the Buddhist communities in Malaysia, in my experience, are a great example of how a thriving community can support people at different stages of life and to support people to engage more deeply with the practice of the Eightfold Path. You’ve been a member of the Buddhist Gem Fellowship in Malaysia for many years now. Could you give us an overview of the kinds of services, activities, and resources that the BGF offers its community?
NeeWern
2:59
Yeah, thanks for that recognition. I think you’re right to say in Malaysia, we organize, or rather Buddhist groups are organized in a very community kind of approach. We tend to be very social in the way we organize our activities, not just one organization, but I think most organizations in our country, in my country at least, organize it in a very community based approach. I’m not sure about the west. I’ve not been direct contact with the Western Buddhist that much. But here we do a lot of community activities. So, for example, we tend to focus a lot more on, say, coming together on a Sunday for what we call a puja service. And everybody do will come and participate, and we’ll be very happy to participate in a very elaborate, perhaps chanting of the various chantings. And then we will probably have some Dharma talks, and we’ll probably end with some good Dhana or offering food, offering to the monks, and then we will eat, and then we’ll disperse, and we’ll keep repeating those things. So my little involvement in the Buddhist Gem Fellowship and other societies in general has been a lot more focused on reaching out to the community to make sure that we bring them in, and then we give them the Dharma, and then they will then go back, and hopefully there’s some takeaway for them in their daily practice. So, yes, that’s in general how we organize ourselves.
Sol
4:33
Now, I know that Buddhist organizations in the west are usually fairly basic because often they’re quite new. They may or may not support resident sangha. They offer a place where people can hear teachings and learn about meditation, which, of course, is fantastic. But the Buddhist Gem Fellowship offers groups that cater to community members at different stages of life. And I note that you’ve been involved, particularly in youth groups in the past. Could you explain a bit more about that approach which targets different stages of life or different stages in society?
NeeWern
5:06
Yeah, sure. I think in Malaysia, one of the things that we well, to give you a bit of context, the Malaysian Buddhists are largely Chinese, or Malaysian Chinese. Because of our heritage, we brought with our forefathers, brought with them the whole Chinese culture, which includes Buddhism, is one of them. And so when we bring ourself and also our families to, say, a Buddhist temple, we tend to bring the entire family. So normally, most centers would try to cater for different age groups. Like, for example, if you’re a parent, then you will have activities for those parents. If you are working adult, your activities for the working adults. If you are children, then we have the Dharma schools, which is quite a big thing here, because we do have parents who actually send their children to the center for Dharma education. And then you do have activities cater for retirees. So you can see that most societies, or Buddhist societies, are organized to cater for different levels of the community, and that includes also catering for visiting monks or monastics. So you would find that most Buddhist centers here, the way we built them, is that if we have the space, we will normally in most cases, you reserve at least one or two rooms for monastics. So any visiting monks, that will be for them, and nobody’s allowed to go in there to use their things. So that’s how we organize ourselves. It’s a very traditional kind of spirit, but in a very Malaysian way as well, because one of the things that we have in Malaysia, very unique is we somehow are very comfortable with all different Buddhist traditions from the various lineages. We have the Burmese tradition, we have the Sri Lankan tradition. We have the Thai tradition. We also have the Chinese traditions that are very much ingrained in our society itself. So you can see that that’s the kind of variety we have in our country already. We are already a multiracial, multireligious country. And even among the Buddhists, we also have this multi traditions and different kinds of so we do cater for different communities in general. Yes, I
Sol
7:19
think just a bit of a side point. But I do think that’s an important point to mention is that Malaysia is such a crossroads geographically and culturally and I really feel that the BGF in particular was able to take on board teachings from Burma and Thailand and Sri Lanka and and to have different visiting teachers and then also even to the. Influences from Mahayana and so forth. There’s much more openness there. And that really has come across, I feel, in some of the work you’ve done in free distribution books and those kinds of things. Did you want to elaborate upon that a little bit more?
NeeWern
7:58
Yeah, sure. Well, the Buddhist Gem Fellowship was one of the early societies that were quite focused on dharma out each, and they took a very early position to be non sectarian, meaning that it didn’t have to be bound to any traditions. Like, if you were to have a very traditional temple, per se, it could be a Thai temple, Burmese temple, or Sri Lankan temple. Usually there is a lot of traditions attached to those. There’s a traditional identity attached to it. But I think when we organized the Buddhist Gem Fellowship or other my predecessors, I mean, the seniors who organized themselves, they decided upfront that it was non sectarian. So, yes, they welcomed teachers from Mahayana. I think I did remember one of those years, the Plum Village monastics came, and we organized a retreat, and they would hear, and we did that. We also had monastics from Tibet, the Llamas, and then the Zen tradition, the Koreans as well as the Chinese, and then we had also the various Terravada groups as well. So from the very beginning, we took a very non sectarian position. So that actually helped to have a wide reach, especially for people who didn’t want to be too bound by a certain tradition. So, by and large, we actually catered a lot more for those who are professionals who wanted maybe Buddhism to be more accessible rather than the usual following the traditional approach. So that was a fortunate thing for us, I would say.
Sol
9:36
It’s an interesting mismatch of things insofar as you’ve got that openness and that kind of in terms of how open the world is. I mean, Malaysia is right there at the forefront of that, of globalization. And of course, as I say, because it’s a largely English speaking community, you’ve done all this translation work and put all these teachings, which are available now in other English speaking countries, which has been fantastic. But at the same time, you’ve still got those traditions. When I go to Malaysia, I’ve really felt like there’s a very strong Buddhist traditions there at the same time. And I did want to step back a little bit because I wanted to talk about those groups. What do you know of in terms of could you give us a little idea of what would happen at a Dharmer school for children that’s different for a youth group, which is like, I guess, just out of high school? Into the university years. What kind of ways would you cater for those different groups, those different age groups,
NeeWern
10:39
for example? Yeah, well, I think there are two things here. On one hand, we have the various traditions. That means in general, most Malaysians I would say in general there are exceptions, but in general, most Malaysians are quite comfortable with the different traditions. I don’t think we have much problems assimilating ourselves quite flexible in that sense. There is a preference for a southern tradition, though. So somehow it happened that somehow, rather, the English speaking Chinese communities in Malaysia tend towards the Terravada, the Pali traditions, whereas the Chinese speaking have a tendency to be on the Mahayana. That seems to be a very peculiar kind of, I would say evolution. So I can only say that my involvement a lot more from the English speaking side. And therefore, when they organize, let’s say, Dharma school and children come on a Sunday, just like going to a Sunday school, and they will learn and they will have probably a syllabus or rather kind of a session guide, I would say that they were probably taken from some tradition somewhere. So usually our references are largely Terravada, mainly. And then, of course, they will learn the basic things such as the seala and then do some Dhana and all the various values. And they learn that when the children graduate, after they finish maybe completed the high school, they will probably go to college universities. And then you need to establish them differently. And that’s the challenge because for youths, they want to have their own identity and therefore youth sections or youth groups are organized quite differently. They don’t necessarily learn Dharma the same way as the children will learn. And so we do have to cater very differently. Very interesting is that for the youth sections, they like to organize it themselves, so they like to have more independence. They want to do with things their way. And therefore many of the activities have to be catered to whatever they want to do. Yeah.
Sol
12:49
Mmhmm. And you mentioned also that there is some support for retirees. Do you know anything about the work that’s being done there? Because often that’s a big issue in the west is people get to retirement age and they become quite lonely. It’s really good that you’ve actually got something to activities to support people of
NeeWern
13:07
that age. Yeah, some centers do cater for that age group retirees, especially when they have large population there. So my center that I live nearby, Subanjaya Buddhist Association, they do classes like Chicong, they have ping pong, very social activities. They do have, say, calligraphy classes and line dancing. And some of them even volunteer to do traditional Thai Chinese medicine. So some centers do function like a community center catered for the retirees that are maybe members of that Buddhist society. Normally they offer this for free so that people can come and be part of that community. So it’s not unusual to find that even a lot of these places do cater for such things. If the population is quite they have a large retiree population there, although at the same time, they do try to offer some dharma talks and some dharma sharing. But by and large, the retirees do come because you do offer those services for them.
Sol
14:14
Right now it seems to me that there’s an emphasis on engaging people. Does this kind of translate into also, like, for instance, getting people to practice more assiduously, like going on a meditation retreat or something and or does it lead them to doing volunteer work we mentioned, like doing translations and getting pre publication books or other types of giving? Does that lead to that?
NeeWern
14:45
I it’s interesting that you mentioned that because whilst we yes, we engage the community, the people do come and then they do have things they can do, but it depends on the interest level. So I can only say from my own observations that many of them are interested in providing some service of sort. So if you’re a retiree or if you’re belonging to certain interest levels, they like to go into cooking. They like to cook and offer some lunch for devotees, people who come for upusata practice. And then they will just and every Sunday, for example, they will be the one that do the Dhana, do the offering to monks and sing, things like that. And then there will be some people who are very interested in just helping out to clean the center and so on and so forth. I would say there’ll be lesser interest, say, in things like doing I don’t think we do lot of translations that maybe certain groups of people we do have our venerable Agachita, one of our Malaysian local monks who does good talks and then somebody will record and they do some editing as well as transcribing those talks. So there are groups that do that today. So we do cater for people who want to do some voluntary work as well. And I just want to mention the other one is maybe they do Dharma talks. So some of us who have that capacity, they would offer and do some Dharma talks and they get Dhamma learning sessions organized so that you can bring people together. So I think the whole idea is we want people to come we always like to build people to come to the center, to be part of us. And then we want to engage them, we want to get to know them. And then after that we follow up with them and then we engage them in many other activities as well. So that seems to be our pattern. We don’t necessarily want to look at the individuals, but just also as a community. Even if we do long meditation retreats, we have a tendency to organize it for a large
Sol
16:48
group. How many would often go on a retreat?
NeeWern
16:53
That depends on the teacher. Popular, popular teachers like Ajam Brahm, you got to be on the waiting list all the time. You don’t have a space. So you normally have to book Buddhist monastery that it has that space so that people can be there. But there are also some retreats that are maybe lesser. You have lesser crowd, but also well attended by some of the people who want to go for those retreats. So, yes, when we organize retreats, we tend to like to have more people to come on board and be part of those
Sol
17:25
retreats. Well, we’ve mentioned that the Buddhist TEM Fellowship is located in Malaysia and Southeast Asia, and it’s principally an English speaking community. Now, I want to bring up this question because a lot of the people who are listening, many would have a local temple or a local monk. But there are many people out there online. They don’t have a local temple or a local monastery or a monk or a nun that they can go to. Now, it’s quite interesting that the BGF does tend to invite teachers from across the region. Could you explain how that’s worked, inviting lots of different teachers and what impact having a range of visiting teachers has had on the recent development of Buddhism in Malaysia?
NeeWern
18:16
MMM. I think Malaysian Buddhist community also has evolved over the years. I must give credit to our late Dr. K Sri Dhamananda, venerable K Sri Dhamananda who was we fondly remember him as Chief Reverend or the late chief now we call him, and he was a Sri Lankan. He came to Malaysia, Malaya, actually, before independence, before our country’s independence, he was already here. And he was instrumental in bringing the interests of Buddhism to Malaysians in general because I think before him and before some other venerables from the Chinese speaking groups in the early or rather mid 19 hundreds, they didn’t have or rather a lot of Malaysians Buddhists didn’t have that Buddhist literacy, I would call it. We don’t have a lot of knowledge about Buddhism. But along came people like him who brought the Dharma learning to interest to the community. And today, thanks to him, we do have a thriving, at least a knowledgeable and practicing Buddhist community. So if not because of his effort to bring Dhammad to the people in a very practical way, I would say we’ll still be doing the usual rituals go to the temple, put, adjustics bow three times and then we leave the temple. That seems to be what our parents and our grandparents have been teaching us to do all these years. But then we had this resurgence in Buddhist learning interests. So today what we are trying to do is to keep that interest alive. Now, back to your question about the BGF or how they were organizing. They wanted to keep this kind of dharma learning alive. The late chief is no more around, but we now can get different teachers from all over to be giving sessions, teachings and all that and a lot more, I would say. They don’t stay long, but they do give a teaser of what the Dharma is here and there. And then people do pick it up and then they will go back to their respective centers. They will probably practice on their own.
Sol
20:28
I wanted to ask about in terms of the mechanics of that. So you have a teacher that you’re interested in. It could be in, I don’t know, Sri Lanka or it could be Thailand or it could be. I don’t know, Australia. And then you invite them. Do you have a place where they can stay? And a program of teaching during when they’re there? How does that just work? Just the mechanics of
NeeWern
20:51
it? Yeah. So if a monk comes to visit, normally they will have a program. And that program would include either they will organize a retreat or they’ll organize series of Dharma talks, or they will do, say, short engagement sessions. That depends on the monastics preference and also their competency. So if I have, say, Ajam Brahmali, who comes from Perth, and every year, the BGF would organize this Suta retreat, which is very well attended, and then we’ll learn, and then he’ll go and then we will engage other teachers along the way. We don’t have that continuation of, say, dhamma learning in the long term by one teacher. We do have a continuation of Dharma learning by different teachers. So they offer these things, and then it depends on the individuals, practitioners.
Sol
21:46
That’s just very interesting. I think some people out there, if they’re thinking, like, where can I get a muck? Maybe that’s the first option is to invite them for a weekend or something like that and see if you can support them for that weekend. And that’s always a very good start. Rather than thinking you’ve got to establish a monastery, which is a pretty daunting prospect. Absolutely. Now, the BTF, we’ve mentioned that they have very good social programs. We’ve also mentioned that I guess there’s that traditional sense of respecting the rituals and so forth, forth. Now, in many religious communities, not just Buddhist communities, that’s where things stop. That’s all they focus on, is rituals and socializing. But the BCF has really actively sought to engage people in the practice of Buddhism. How has it done, then, in recent decades?
NeeWern
22:38
Yeah. Yes. Again, it’s generalizing. It but I think I do agree that we do have this tendency to lean towards the rituals, the ceremonies and also the festivals and yeah, Dharma practice probably will take a secondary thing. But I think the BGF, because most of the early leaders were students of the late venerable Caseri Dhamananda. And I think the impact he had on the people was that the focus was back to Dharma learning. So when the lay community who now organized the BGF and also other centers today has taken on this kind of direction to say let’s focus a lot more on helping people to learn tama so when we shifted that focus, there’s a little less emphasis on the rituals per se. So the rituals will still be there because we do respect our rituals, we do respect the traditions and the cultural aspect of it. So before any sessions, we always have a pooja. We will never start even a simple meeting before we start a meeting, we will do the usual chanting and then we will end with the traditional pali chanting just to do the aspirations and dedications. But the session itself is a lot more focused on Dharma learning. So there are groups that are today, in fact, thanks to those influences, have today tried to make Dharma learning a lot more the focus rather than the ceremonies by itself. I would say Malaysians in general when it comes to Dharma learning. Maybe it’s not as well attended as you compare to, let’s say you organize those big events. So, for example, if it’s Katina. Katina is a very big event here today. It’s huge. Right. You have people who sponsor the robes and they offer the robes and it’s a massive event every year. So we do love these things at the same time. So we do have a mix of these kinds of very traditional approaches. But at the same time, there are groups, including BGF and many others who will also focus a lot more on deepening our understanding of the Dharma. Yeah,
Sol
25:05
right. Including could
NeeWern
25:07
you a mix of it’s kind of a mixed bag of all these at the same time? It is a
Sol
25:10
mixed bag, but at the same time, those things are not necessarily. Antagonistic. They can be supportive of one another. And also, I know that you really do emphasize doing meditation a lot as well. That would be a common feature of many of your sessions, would be doing meditation as well, is that right? Yes, there are groups that are quite meditation focused. I wouldn’t say that we’ll do meditation every single session. I think that doesn’t seem to come across. We’ll definitely do a puja, we’ll do a talk, we’ll answer some questions, and we’ll go back. But there are groups that are quite meditation focused, and they do have regular meditation practices as well as maybe meditation retreats. And usually these are the people that are a little bit more focused on doing meditation retreats. So you do have a contrast. There are very much intellectual learners on one hand. On the other hand, you have the meditators. It’s very seldom you find both at the same time.
NeeWern
26:16
But if you do it, it’s a blessing.
Sol
26:18
Yeah. Okay. Now, at the moment, you have become head of Dharma Leadership Development for a new organization that was founded in 2019 that’s called Cradle, the center for Research and Dharma Leadership Enhancement. What is the main aim of Cradle in Malaysia?
NeeWern
26:36
Okay. The cradle. The acronym is Cradle. C-R-A-D-L-E-N-S. There’s a d apostrophe in the beginning. So we call D Cradle. The D is just our tribute back to Dhamananda, actually, Venerable Damananda, we pay tribute to him because he is one of the founding fathers of Malaysian missionaries work, malaysian Buddhist missionary work. So we want to dedicate this center to him. The cradle was founded by our DD Dan Hua Chai. Hua Chai is our founding today’s founding director. And the main focus was really one of the gaps. Just to give you the context again, the gaps we notice in the Buddhist community is that we do have a lot of people organizing activities. Various Buddhist centers today are quite active organizing lots of activities. But we do notice that every year the activities just keep repeating themselves. So at the right time, you do the WESA, you do the Katina, you probably do a few other kind of big things, and then you probably do a few other Sanghi Kadana along the way. And that seems to be their main focus. But what we notice is that many Buddhist societies don’t have necessarily a kind of a sense of direction and mission in a way that brings the transformation to the individuals in the community. So we felt that this gap need to be addressed from a leadership perspective. And so the center is set up to enhance the leadership of the Buddhist leaders. So people who come to the programs will be kind of trained and developed in terms of their leadership of the community so that when they go back and lead those communities, maybe with a different sense of focus and mindset, that could be one of the things that we intend to do. So really, it’s all about transforming and taking the Buddhist community to another level. That’s in a nutshell, what we are trying to do.
Sol
28:43
Right. You’ve got a special program that you mentioned when we were talking prior to the interview to help people in various leadership roles. I mean, they’re already in these roles. And you called this glad. What is glad. Could you tell us about
NeeWern
28:57
that? Glad is a program. We call it another acronym. It’s called great leadership. Awakening with Dharma. So it’s a four day leadership program, but this is not a type of leadership program where we talk about how do you delegate, how do you lead, and things like that. This is a very Buddhist one. We try to go back to the Buddha as a source of inspiration, and we try to remind the people who come to this program that the Buddha was a great leader. And so he led this, a multinational national corporation called the Sangha. And he had structures, he had systems, he had direction, he had focus. And so if we take on the Buddha as a great leader, then perhaps we can do what we need to do in the community with that sense of leadership. And therefore, that, in essence, is what glad program is about. And we like the word glad, because glad means gladness of the heart. And a dharma leader, in our opinion, needs to have gladness because often we find that some people who have served in a Buddhist center of Buddhist society for a good number of years, they will have a tendency to have burnout. So they say, okay, I do not want to be the president anymore. Next person, can you please be the president? And then good luck to you, and I wish you all the best. But that’s a sign that maybe they didn’t really know that. What’s their purpose? I’m not just a president, but I have a role to play in the community. And that playing a role. Whether you’re a president, you’re a teacher, you are a volunteer. That role is a leadership role. So what we’re trying to do really is to impress on everyone that that role needs to be played so that the community will have that benefit.
Sol
30:58
MMM. Right. That’s amazing. Actually, a four day program for leaders. My experience is that people who end up in the leadership roles are the ones who can’t get away from doing it because no one else wants
NeeWern
31:15
you end up having to do most of the work yourself and you don’t get support. And that’s the ho problem we find in the community in general. So we are trying to address that by saying, look, you need to have a purpose. And that purpose is a higher purpose than just being the committee member. That purpose is a leadership role that you need to play. And we are trying to give a sense of mission. And again, taking on the Buddha as an example, he was on a mission. He wasn’t just here just to do some teachings here and there, but he was really on a mission to transform the community, to change the community. But I must say, what we are trying to do here is quite ahead of its time, because I don’t think many Buddhist organizations do have this focus. Not sure about the west, but here, we don’t have such things here.
Sol
32:06
No, I do think it’s ahead of its time, and I do think it’s meeting a need. I mean, when I was on the president of the Buddhist society at WA, I had no idea what I was doing, and I did burn out. And you had to keep yourself going. But I think that emphasis also on connecting not just with the nuts and bolts of organization, but also the purpose and that need to people do see you as a leader, and you do need to act in a way a which is a good example, and a support. But of course, sometimes leaders need support as well. So I think what you’re doing is fantastic in that regard. Um, look, you’ve been engaged, actively engaged in the Buddhist community for many years now. What do you see as maybe some weaknesses or what are you hoping to develop further in the years ahead?
NeeWern
33:01
Yeah, I think our very strength here in Malaysia is also our very weakness at the same time and also our blind spot. I must be very candid to say that whilst we are a very community based kind of approach, we do bring people closer in the community. But I think in contrast with maybe where you’re coming from, we have maybe less emphasizing on the deepening, the tamale learning aspect. We tend to be quite good in supporting the monastics and the community in general. So there is a risk that we may tend to be too focused on the traditions and running of our activities and getting to the routines, rather than being critical. So perhaps one characteristic you’ll find in a lot of us in our community is that we tend to be less critical. We are quite accepting of things. So if we hear something from certain teachers, we are quick to accept. We may ask a few questions to clarify, but we don’t necessarily cast a critical eye on things. That’s the same with methodology. So we are not necessarily quite very good in critically evaluating methodologies. So we tend to follow whatever has been done in the past. I think this is something we can probably learn from our Western counterparts, where for you, perhaps, the education system has led you to be quite critical of methodologies, of methods, and quite structured in the way you present your views and ideas. And that’s something we can learn from, because I find sometimes the very strength of being very accepting alone can be a very weakness when it comes to casting that critical eye on methodology, on structure, on process. So that’s the thing that I find we should pick up as a community.
Sol
35:01
I think the very fact that you’re thinking about it and aware of those issues is a very good sign. And, I mean, I think we could all do that. I mean, can only improve if we’ve kind of investigated and try to work out, well, how can we improve? What are our weaknesses? And very often, I think, in general, religious communities aren’t necessarily very good at that. So the fact you’re even thinking about it and talking about it is a good sign. 5s
I think that’s probably where we want to leave it. Is there any final words that you think you could offer our listeners in terms of think of the person who’s out there. Maybe they don’t have much of a community around them. What it’s something that you think that they could do to get started?
NeeWern
35:46
Yeah, I think drawing from the Buddhas himself in the Mahaparinibana Sut, the Buddha does mention what are the principles of building harmonious or social community. And one of those guidelines was about if the community were to meet frequently, coming together as a community frequently, and I think he of course, that becomes one of the key things. And then also in other places, the Buddha does mention that the whole of the Holy Life is about being with good friends. So taking the cue from there, it’s about hanging out with the right people. And personally, I find if you do not have a community out there, it’s a little harder, I suppose, to maintain the kind of interest and practice of the Dhamma. And so what keeps us going, really, is to have a group of friends to sort of sustain this kind of interest in the practice. Because even for us, we can get very complacent to say, oh, I know the Dharma already, so leave me alone, let me do my own practice. But then we slip back into our daily routines, and that’s about it. We don’t normally go further. And then after that, we get into trouble. Then we find, okay, let’s go back and find the Dharma again. So maybe one of the things I can point out is that on my own, I also organize a very small group that meets at my house once a month. I call it the cell group or whatever. So the group will come together and we’ll do some Dharma learning, Dharma practice, and I’ll lead them through, and it’s a regular meeting. And keeping that kind of group going will be very essential. So if you have a community, even a small one, few individuals who show similar interests, I suppose, getting them together, getting them to come together on a regular basis, whether it’s monthly or weekly, it doesn’t matter to discuss, to share, and also to experience and to reflect. And that, I think, keeps the interest and the momentum going. For Dhamma practice, which I find is very useful for me, we can learn Dhamma on our own, that’s not a problem. But the one that sustains us in the practice, really, is to have that group of friends that we hang out with. And that becomes very crucial because if we don’t have that, then we always run a risk of going back to our usual routines, which may not sustain our Dharma interests in the long term. So, yeah, building a community, I think very essential. Whether it’s a small community or a large community, I think community becomes an important word. And I think we are not too far from the Buddha when we try to do this. That’s just my little reflection that I can have.
Sol
38:39
Thank you. That’s and very wise advice and an excellent place to end the interview. Thank you. Thank you so much. Neo and. For joining us on the Treasure Mountain podcast.
NeeWern
38:48
You’re welcome. Thank you so much for having me.
Sol
38:51
And thank you to all our listeners for joining us for this inspiring episode of Treasure Mountain, and we learnt about creating strong, supportive Buddhist communities with NeeWern Khoo. There will be more links in the show notes to this episode, and if you enjoy this podcast, I’d appreciate if you could share this episode with your friends and other the people who could benefit from its Sage advice. Treasure Mountain podcast is part of the Everyday Dharma Network. You can find out more about Treasure Mountain podcast by going to the links in the show notes to this episode. You can also find out on the Treasure Mountain website information about all previous episodes and guests, as well as transcriptions of our interviews. If you go back to the Everydaydharma Net homepage, you can discover more about the three other podcasts on the network and links to subscribe to any and all of them. I hope you’ll join us again for our next episode of Treasure Mound Podcast as we seek for the treasure within.

Following the Path of a Forest Monk | Ajahn Pasanno

Treasure Mountain Podcast
Treasure Mountain Podcast
Following the Path of a Forest Monk | Ajahn Pasanno
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Joining us on this episode is a humble, yet trail-blazing monk from the forest tradition lineage of Ajahn Chah who is now the senior most bhikkhu at Abhayagiri Forest Monastery in California. I’m speaking of course of the Venerable Ajahn Pasanno.

Ajahn Pasanno took ordination in Thailand in 1974 with Venerable Phra Khru Ñāṇasirivatana as preceptor. During his first year as a monk he was taken by his teacher to meet Ajahn Chah, with whom he asked to be allowed to stay and train. One of the early residents of Wat Pah Nanachat, Ajahn Pasanno became its abbot in his ninth year. During his incumbency, Wat Pah Nanachat developed considerably, both in physical size and reputation. Spending 24 years living in Thailand, Ajahn Pasanno became a well-known and highly respected monk and Dhamma teacher. He moved to California on New Year’s Eve of 1997 to share the abbotship of Abhayagiri with Ajahn Amaro. In 2010 Ajahn Amaro accepted an invitation to serve as abbot of Amaravati Buddhist Monastery in England, leaving Ajahn Pasanno to serve as sole abbot of Abhayagiri for the next eight years. In spring of 2018, Ajahn Pasanno stepped back from the role of abbot and now serves as a guiding elder for the community.

A quick note to listeners: I had a lot of problems with delayed echos across the original recording. I did a lot of editing to remove that echo, and I believe I’ve removed all of that which can be removed without changing the flow of the interview. I think it’s turned out quite well, but there are a few points at which we have echo or less than optimal audio.

In any case, I think it’s a really interesting interview in which one of the most senior Western disciples of Ajahn Chah reflects upon life and the changing times as Buddhism comes to the West. I hope you all enjoy this interview with Ajahn Pasanno.

Further information regarding to topic of this episode:

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Thank you for listening to the Treasure Mountain Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode please share it with you friends. If you’d like to support me to produce this type of content in future, you can support my work by offering a tip via the Ko-fi payment applet or via my Patreon.


AjahnPasanno interview – Following the path of a forest monk
Mon, Jul 03, 2023 1:31PM • 
SPEAKERS
Ajahn Pasanno, Sol Hanna


Sol Hanna  
00:01
Ajahn Pasanno, welcome to the podcast. And thank you so much for taking the time to join us. How are you today?


Ajahn Pasanno  
00:08
Very good. Thank you. Good to be here.


Sol Hanna  
00:11
Look, I’d like to get stuck into understanding your early life, I believe you grew up in Manitoba in Canada, up in the air up in the north of Manitoba indeed. And I was wondering what it was like growing up in such an isolated place. And whether this influenced you towards a spiritual theorist philosophical inquiry from a young age.


Ajahn Pasanno  
00:33
I don’t know that it influenced me other than drove me to it and


Ajahn Pasanno  
00:43
you know, Northern, I was about, say, about 600 miles north of the American border. Small Town. Pretty rough. As really, and not much as spiritual kind of examples really. So that into, so it just, I think it ignited certainly in me, it ignited a kind of a yearning.


Sol Hanna  
01:17
So you felt like you just wanted to get away and maybe see the world? Or did you feel like there must be something something different?


Ajahn Pasanno  
01:24
Yeah, exactly. I say there’s got to be something more than this.


Sol Hanna  
01:28
Yeah. Okay. After you grew up, and you went to college, in Winnipeg, you traveled around the world and ended up in Thailand, what sets you off on this journey around the world?


Ajahn Pasanno  
01:44
Well, it was both. It was a really yearning for something other than, than what I grew up with. And even what I was, was found at university just sort of looking for something. And, but then, even when I was at university, I did get introduced to Buddhism, I did. I mean, I took courses in, in, in religion, a couple courses, and that that really stimulated my interest and Eastern religion. But what really stood out to me was Buddhism. And then I started reading, I there was no, I really never ever found a place to learn meditation, or anybody who was meditating. It was it was really just from the books. And so I did. Mostly books. And in those days, most of the books were about Japanese. And so I had formulated an idea in my mind that I would like to go to Japan, and study Buddhism, because that was the main thing that I came across. In my readings, although I did read both Tera Vaada Buddhism, I did read about Tibetan Buddhism. But the, you know, the most popular thing in those days, because that was late 60s, was the and into early 70s. Most popular thing was was was in and it did have an express inclination to meditation. And that seemed intuitively I was drawn to the meditation element. But of course, I mean, if I really wanted to go really quickly, I was really for a really motivated I could have gone from Vancouver or to Japan, but I didn’t I went I went the long way around and started in in Europe and traveled through Europe, Middle East, India, Nepal, Overland.


Sol Hanna  
04:10
And he never did. He never did make it to Japan. You stopped at Thailand.


Ajahn Pasanno  
04:15
I still haven’t made it.


Sol Hanna  
04:20
So why, why Thailand? What? What was it that attracted you to Thailand?


Ajahn Pasanno  
04:26
One you just had to pass through Thailand. I didn’t really know anything about Thailand. I didn’t really know that it was a Buddhist country even and, but then you get there and it’s it’s obvious that Buddhism is everywhere. And then the elements of the society and culture that I found really attractive and the just the kind of warmth of the people and easygoing nature of the of the culture is just that Well, you know the major conditioning influenced in in there, here is the is Buddhism. So I should study Buddhism. And you know, there is there were monasteries everywhere and I started checking and asking and there was opportunities to learn about meditation


Sol Hanna  
05:28
did you go on a retreat there? Or because you ended up ordaining in Bangkok? How did that all come about?


Ajahn Pasanno  
05:35
did what I did go on a retreat My, my, the first, my introduction to meditation was a one month long, Mahasi Sayadaw intensive sort of, in a room by myself for, you know, for Yeah, it was, and, but I loved it. So I felt really drawn, I felt Oh, this is something I really can explore and, and really have to explore. So then I went, I had to where I did this, this retreat was up in the north of Thailand, and I had to go back down to, to Bangkok, because of some embassy business for a passport and I had to renew my passport. So I was there, I’d heard about a monastery in the outskirts of Bangkok that had a very good English Library, as well as a meditation section as a part of the monastery. So I went there, and yes, studying meditating. And then the monks, after a while seeing me sort of practicing and staying there that, that I, they kind of said, well, why why not ordain? Are you gonna ordain? And and no, I couldn’t order, you know, I can’t live like, couldn’t live like this for the rest of my life. And which was my assumption from say, like, from Kathy tradition. But then they say, oh, no, in Thailand, you don’t need to ordain for the you know, for your whole life, you can just do it for a short period of time of, of a few months, if you’d like, that’s ordinary for time time men to do that. So then, a few months, I can do that. And that was the extent of my, my, my commitment. And so then I, I took that ordination. And, you know, they didn’t really give me any training. But then I started hearing about the forest monasteries, in, especially in the northeast of Thailand, and then heard about Ajahn Chah. And it was that that really piqued my interest.


Sol Hanna  
08:14
So, how did it come to be that you ended up with Ajahn Chah? What was it like that first time that you met Ajahn Chah?


Ajahn Pasanno  
08:22
Well, the first time I met Ajahn Chah was really intimidating. Because I did, I was really newly ordained. My teacher at where I took ordination encouraged me to go up. He says Ajahn Chah is a very good teacher, go up and pay respects and spend a bit of time. So then I did, I took his suggestion went up there. And I arrived, and it’s your pay respects, to this senior month, a teacher when you, you arrive, so I did that. And then Jen charges kind of looked at me, you know, with no real expression. And then he just said, if you want to stay here, you have to get at least five years.


Sol Hanna  
09:21
What was your reaction to that to be intimidating?


Ajahn Pasanno  
09:24
Oh, yeah, that was intimidating. Yeah, exactly. Five years, five years. You know, I’m in my early 20s. I mean, yours is the rest of your life.


Sol Hanna  
09:36
For sure, yeah.


Ajahn Pasanno  
09:38
And so I just couldn’t quite get my mind around that. Even though I did love the monastery and the him as a teacher and the common community and the example of the of the Lake community as well. I mean, there’s just seemed to be such sincerity. that I was really drawn to it. But just that idea of, of, of a long term commitment was just too much. So I left after a month. And then and then I went and stayed in a hose, a small meditation monastery in central Thailand. And the teacher there was he taught a particular method, he was quite well known at the time, he had a few Western disciples. So it wasn’t too strange. And he did have a monk who could do some translation and Indian monk was, could translate his teachings. So I, I stayed there and practiced, although at that early few months of that, then he was, he wasn’t there so much he was he was back and forth, he was in the process of kind of winding down a monastery that he had lived at as a teacher for a while, and he was building his own place. So I was in this new, quite small place. So it was very quiet. And so in the countryside, and I was able to do a lot of practice, and I really enjoyed it. And then I was there for longer and longer than I just kept thinking of Ajahn Chah that we’ve got to go about. I’ve got to go back and get myself in Cha know, five years. You’ve got to do it.


Sol Hanna  
11:42
Wow. Yeah. That’s a big decision for such a young man as well. And I think Westerners we don’t necessarily like the idea of committing certainly not for life, you know,


Ajahn Pasanno  
11:53
commitment is anathema. You know,


Sol Hanna  
11:57
we want to go and have a good time. And yeah.


Ajahn Pasanno  
12:00
And that’s quite natural that that that age. That’s what that’s what one you know, it’s about that’s the one who’s drawn to, but the pole to the example of Ajahn Cha and the example of the monastics in the monastery. It that was really, really pulled me.


Sol Hanna  
12:24
So you went back to agencia and what Bapaume what was were there any many memories from that period of training with Ajahn Shah that really stand out in your mind?


Ajahn Pasanno  
12:38
Well, I was just how difficult it was.


Sol Hanna  
12:43
Yeah, right. The way in what way some people who are listening may not know what ways did you find it? Well, I mean,


Ajahn Pasanno  
12:51
that was the early 70s. So that what conditions were very austere, the northeast of Thailand is extremely it’s the poorest part of Thailand. And and so that yuck conditions were very austere. There just wasn’t like we oftentimes you wouldn’t have flashlights for your battery to to you know, go back and forth from you your dwelling your your dwelling place in the forest. You have to at night, it’s dark and it’s tropical nights, they get really dark it’s in the forest and and sometimes there would be batteries and sometimes they wouldn’t sometimes there’d be candles and sometimes there wouldn’t. So just basic things where sometimes you’d get your you go to the store to get say something like a bar soap for for bathing and and and the stores monk would be cutting bars of soap in half so that each month could get some conditions where we’re quite simple the food in the northeast of Thailand is is is not an odor but especially in those days. Over time, then there was much more of a gardens and and more so far more vegetables being grown and a lot more of the Yep, just some basics were more more available in time the economy was was being developed. Yeah. And also besides the the, the kind of the physical conditions so Like, I never saw such a thing as as awful until, you know, like a cushion to sit meditation on. For years and years. Yeah. You know, you just sit on the floor, all of the northeasterners you know, they grew up, they grew up on the floor, so they’re comfortable sitting sitting on the floor. And yeah, it was was that as a Westerner with a body that, you know, not very flexible, had to just just that physical hardship. And then there was a, there was a rigor, rigorous schedule a time. So that was, but it was, the thing is this, you know, you’re young and it’s, it’s all a challenge. So it was was, yes, it was difficult, but it’s also very satisfying. It felt like really exactly what I wanted to be doing and should be doing.


Sol Hanna  
16:03
Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that. Because it was many, quite a few Westerners that went to train with Thailand at the time. Not all of them made it what, what got you through that period of time, what kept you going?


Ajahn Pasanno  
16:23
Well, I think probably certainly at a trust in at Ajahn Cha. But then also an increasing trust and confidence in the, in the efficacy of the of the teachings, that this was a really true teaching that that really pointed to a way of peace and and freedom. So it was it was a confidence in the both in the teacher as well as the as well as the the teachings themselves being firmly grounded in in truth.


Sol Hanna  
17:11
I’d like to move forward to when, in early 80s, you became the abbot of Nanachat, which for those who don’t know, was a branch Monastery of adventures was Wat Pah Pong, which catered to Western bhikkhus. How did you come to be evitable?


Ajahn Pasanno  
17:35
Oh, what is it a series of unfortunate, unfortunate circumstances you I wasn’t Yeah, it was. It was very, very young at the time, although in those days, you know, we just we were all reasonably when our Ajahn Sumedo became the, the the but I mean, he was just in his going into his ninth year as well. So, but it was more. I mean, in those days, there were a few more senior monks around but then it was when Ajahn Cha, and that’s when when it was right at the time when Ajahn Jocko was leaving to go to he’d gotten permission from agencia but the group in Perth, Western Australia had had gotten Ajahn’s blessing to that he would send say like a jock roll with one other month to go. And so that first monk who went was a monk called Puriso who went for a year and then Ajahn Brahm went after that. So but anyway, Ajahn Jagaro was leaving and he had been in the habit of, of what Ajahn Chah and so then Ajahn Cha, I was out at a kind of a remote branch monastery along the the border of Laos. I’d spent the rains retreat there and I absolutely loved it. There was a huge forest about 1000 acre forest that still had plenty of wild animals and it was on it was in a reservoir from a power down so it’s very beautiful conditions. And and I found it very conducive to meditation. So I was making plans to stay. Which you should never make too many plans. And then the letter came to the abbot telling me to this after the rains retreat, telling me to go back to what Nana chaat to prepare to take all the duties of of Abbot of Wat Nana Cha because a Ajahn Jagaro was going to be leaving. So that was Ajahn chars initiative and Amin it wasn’t a request, it was it was sort of he let me know that’s what I was going to be doing.


Sol Hanna  
20:45
Because that’s a huge change. And I think, coming from our Western culture, we’re not used to that idea that you’re gonna get ordered. More or less to do something. How did you feel it? How do you feel about it?


Ajahn Pasanno  
21:01
Well, I felt terrified. You know, the idea of, of taking on that responsibility and having that duty and, and, you know, I felt I felt that agenda. I also felt that if adventure, I felt I couldn’t do it, he wouldn’t ask me to do it. So, because I had a lot of trust in Him, and felt that that, you know, he really understood human nature and, and understood. Yeah, us as human beings. So I, I had that. I had the confidence that he knew what he was doing. I didn’t have the confidence and I knew what I was doing. I felt okay, I think I can I can I can just have to make this work.


Sol Hanna  
22:04
It worked out really well done. In the sense that you and your leadership at the what Nana chat grew in size. There was more monks coming to practice there.


Ajahn Pasanno  
22:17
Yeah, yeah, I think I did. Okay.


Sol Hanna  
22:22
It’s very modest, very modest. Did you want to say anything else. But that


Ajahn Pasanno  
22:31
was just just the, that sense of of right at the timing was also when John Chow was was, was becoming quite ill. So it was a period when he was getting more sick. And so on a certain level. You know, it couldn’t it wasn’t a negotiable situation, because he was, it was a you know, don’t want to bother him or, or put too much onto his plate, because he was, you know, his health was really falling apart at the top. Right, right. So I feel like okay, I just got to, I got to do it.


Sol Hanna  
23:26
Yeah, and when agencia did pass away, you were quite involved in the funeral as well. So that’s quite a big position of trust, because I believe, you know, I heard a million times people came and visited during the funeral period. 10


Ajahn Pasanno  
23:47
Yes. I mean, the funeral period was quite long. And but yeah, so we’re, you know, yeah, just on the actual day of the funeral, there was about a beach somewhere between three and 400,000 people. Incredible. And, and over that period of the of the funeral. Yeah, people were streaming in from all over the country. And, and, but, um, you know, we did, one of the things that, that we did, it started probably four or five years before John Shaw passed away was we, you know, we, you know, agencia is not going to get better. And there’s going to be a funeral and it’s going to be huge. We’ve got to start figuring out how to make this work. So there was a lot of a lot of planning that went into developing the infrastructure to receive that situation. Although I think None of us none of us could have conceived of how big it was going to be. But one of the things I did do and I I, I talked with a couple of the senior monks and said, you know, we should really take a group of this of senior monks up there was a very senior disciple of at John Martin, who passed away very respected. And his funeral was taking place. I said, we should go up and observe that to see what we can learn from that. And what we learned was that we had to be organized because it was chaos everywhere and then everybody came back with a real strong consensus that, okay, we’ve we’ve got to do something that would honor Agim Cha, and, and having a chaotic funeral ceremony happen is not a dedication to all of us goodness.


Sol Hanna  
26:19
And how did how do you feel a wind?


Ajahn Pasanno  
26:23
I would, you know, I mean, of course, I know all the things that went wrong, but you can’t see. But but in terms of, of overall, it was absolutely magical. And, you know, it really was able to provide an atmosphere of peace and faith and, and introducing teachings and practice to, to so many people. I mean, just the right around the time of the actual cremation there were about, I think it was about five to 6000 monks living in what proportion but 1000 nuns. And then a little over 10,000, laypeople actually camped out in the monastery. And we were able, we were able to provide toilets and showers and food for everybody. As soon as you want in the monastery, there was no monetary exchange for anything. And we had, that’s just incredible books for free distribution for everybody who wanted them we had. Yeah, so. And I remember, I remember we had it was it was like, it was just, it wasn’t quite open yet. And and I think it was about 4540 45 kitchens that were volunteer people had only to different groups and communities volunteered to have free kitchens, and they would serve different things and make it available to everybody. And, and we, a bunch of us who were the organizers, we came up with the idea that it’d be really good for everybody to keep the eight precepts and and then make it easier on the kitchens. They just need to provide food in the morning. And then there just need to be some drinks in the afternoon. And we we sort of let let people know. That’s what we’re thinking. And then we had By that evening, we had a pro step protest march coming down from all the kitchens coming up to meet us and no way are we are we not going to read there’s going to be people coming day and night and they should be receiving food. They should be looked at Yeah, we had to give in sort of this. That wasn’t that wasn’t negotiable.


Sol Hanna  
29:17
That’s incredible. I’d like to move on and just ask a little bit more about your time as Abbot of what pan on a chart. One of the things you were involved in was a model reforestation project. How did this come about and what motivated you to promote reforestation in Thailand?


Ajahn Pasanno  
29:40
Well, I mean, I mean, I was a forest monk living in a forest and so and it’s and you go around to different monasteries, branch monasteries, and you and, and that was at a time of really rapid transition and even on the end of a quite a rapid transition of, of Thailand turning from a very rural agrarian economy to a more of an intern trying to get an international economy going that had something that so that that that but part of that was built on, on agriculture and that was cash crops and a lot of forests were were completely cut down just for the cash crops of say of sugarcane or tapioca or jute products and, and so that and especially the northeast of Thailand has very poor soil, so that the soil be depleted and the forest to be gone. So it was a real loss for everything. So wanting to try to reestablish areas of of nature and and look after the places and as well as expanding the just the monastery itself, so that it’s a bit more of a refuge for people because that’s in Thailand and and for those people who are safe in Western Australia and familiar with with what Bojan means the refuge for so many people just a peaceful refuge. And having these so that that extending the boundaries of the monastery planting forests and like I probably quadrupled the size of, of the monastery and did all sorts of planting and then got involved with other areas of land and, and forests that were, were being protected as well as also because the thing is, it’s not just, it’s not just forests that you want to pay attention to. It’s also you know, the villagers, the villagers need to make a living and, and you want to, especially when you live in the say live in a forest living, you’re dependent on the village, very close contact with the local community and you really get to know the problems that they face. And and you know, part of it is is just sometimes a lack of, of knowledge or education or so simple resources. So that trying to introduce livelihoods that would help supplement the income, their their income. And that creates a stability in the village culture that is good for everybody. And so you’re trying to get them in and also like taking taking them out to different development projects and get them thinking what would work in our village what would work in our area? And so yeah, I am when they’re doing that, then they they’re able to look after the forest, so a lot more because especially in the northeast of Thailand, the traditionally the forests were really that that was their kind of their that was their market though is there you go, they would have a traditional diet or way of life in northeast of Thailand is they would plant a single rice crop. And then they would have a small gardens close to their houses with just you know, garlic and chilies and spices and whatnot. And, and and the rest of the food was gathered from the forest. And, and so that’s, that’s, that’s gone now. So then trying to introduce ways of of that the villagers could be planting things in areas that would give them either supplemental income or Supplemental Nutrition.


Sol Hanna  
35:10
Yeah. That’s a really interesting, like the holistic way of thinking about how everything is connected and yeah, it’s like everyone wins.


Ajahn Pasanno  
35:22
Everyone wins. Everyone wins. Yeah. And


Sol Hanna  
35:26
yeah, fantastic.


Ajahn Pasanno  
35:28
Yeah. Yeah. And I have good, good people helping me out. It wasn’t just me.


Sol Hanna  
35:34
Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I’d like to turn next to a time when you’re invited to join John Amaroo. As co abbot of the newly established abbia Giri monastery in California. How did that come about?


Ajahn Pasanno  
35:52
Well, the, in America, they were the group in in the Bay Area, San Francisco Bay Area, had the commitment to establish a branch monastery and, and they knew adjuncts tomato. Because of of his connection to California, his parents were in California, he’d go back about once a year to visit them, he was they were elderly. And so then he was in that was in Southern California, where he come up, Jack Kornfield, when invited him up and to, to teach and so that a group of people started to gather who wanted to have a branch Monastery of, of Amravati. In, in, in the in Northern California. And John semedo, felt he couldn’t really take it on. So he designated as an admiral to, to do that. So I John amaro would come boat about once a year and visit and visit the Bay Area, but visit other areas of Buddhist groups in America trying to get a feel for what this strange thing called America was. And so people there started to be a groups of people and then but they and then it gets into say, like early 90s. And say, our communities in in Europe where they went through a whole period of upheaval, and, and and, and everybody said, it’s not commit at all to the place in America, it’s just too much. We’ve gotten enough on our plate already, we need to consolidate what we have and make sure our communities are stable, which is the right thing to do. And so one of the things one of the conditions was that they wouldn’t start anything until they had a a group of monks at least for to start the this new venture in America around that time in the beginning in the early 90s. And some of the group from the Bay Area were also coming to Thailand. And I was getting to know them and then which was an ICER good they’re very sincere, solid practitioners. So that was amusing, inspiring to see this and then there was a period where I went on retreat and ended up in and stayed in England for a year in in chitters forests for a year yeah.


Ajahn Pasanno  
39:25
And and I had already started to conceive think in terms of in long term of my life, I don’t know that maybe I should be trying to be somewhere else and help in some other way. And but it wasn’t really clear in my mind. And then after being in retreat for almost a year, then agile Lamoreaux came back from it. his one of his trips to, he just spent the winter with a group in, in California, and he was relating the, what was happening and how it was going. And, and, and also one of the senior monks from chitters where I was was, he had spent the time there. So they were saying what they’re doing and then saying how it’d be, you know, it’s just kind of when are we ever going to be able to get enough monks to, to help and, and, and then then it sort of football, you know, maybe I can help with that. And so then I approached Ajahn, Admiral and, and said, Would you like me to help out? And an admiral? When he relates the story, he said, it’s it was I was talking with him, but I was very hesitant and sort of wasn’t quite direct. And he said, what’s going on with as impossible is usually really straightforward. And, and, and then what I said was broach the subject of maybe helping him out. He said, he was, he said, he just about leaped up and kiss me. And that was, but I said, The only thing is, is I don’t have permission, I haven’t got I’ve got to go back to Thailand. I’ve got to get permission from the elders at what Paul I’ve got to make sure that I can pass on the abbot ship of what Nana chat, so it’s not a done deal. And you just you can’t say anything, until that happens. So that and he always he felt a lot of confidence as he went forward. And developing plans to keep going because he always felt he had this ace in the back pocket of gym class and ready to help out. So. So yeah, it ended up a wonderful collaboration between the two of us, because I know now John amaro since basically since the day he wandered into what’s known as as a hippie off the beach.


Sol Hanna  
42:52
I’d like to ask about what is it like establishing a forest monastery with strict veneer of the forest tradition in the rather war libertarian if not libertine California in the 1990s


Ajahn Pasanno  
43:07
Yeah, some interesting juxtaposition. But but, you know, the thing is, is I just say it’s strict, but it’s not unreasonable. And and and there is there’s an integrity and clarity there that I think inspires the trust in people because that’s you know, that’s also at a time when and of course continuing into you know, just how many spiritual communities had been just torn apart by by by fundamental lack of precepts and integrity so yeah, we were the new guys on the block but but there was a certain pull there that that that was was it was was trusted. They might not even like it at some times, but at least it could be okay they’re doing something here that’s special that’s different.


Sol Hanna  
44:29
Even though Abby Giri monastery is not near a major city, there has been plenty of interest from both lay people and from those wishing to ordain What do you credit for the successful establishment phase of avea Giri monastery Well,


Ajahn Pasanno  
44:48
you know, I just think the, you know, the clarity of of the teachings clarity of the lifestyle it’s you know, It’s, it’s clear. We’re, we’re, we are what we say we are. That helps. And, you know, we can’t really be more than that. But but it’s really good to not be less than that. And, and that, you know, I think it engenders a certain trust and, and interest and, and, and there is a there is a fidelity to the tie for if there’s, there’s obviously because we’re in the west and we’re in America, there are certain adaptations that one needs to make in the same way that that, say, the podium Now Jim Brown in the community there, there’s adaptations that are made, but there’s a there’s, there’s a fidelity to the, to the, to the tradition from Thailand is and the greater Buddhist tradition from the time of the Buddha. So it’s founded on venia. And, and the teachings are, are not, hopefully not straying from, from the Buddha’s word too far.


Sol Hanna  
46:24
Yeah. Out of interest. How many monastics are there at a girI right now?


Ajahn Pasanno  
46:31
Right now, we’ve just had a little bit of an exodus of, of monks starting a movement, but there’s about there’s 15 But 15, and then there’s three pasturelands in training and a lot of us continuing the training,


Sol Hanna  
46:55
it’s going very well. During your time in the United States, how do you think the knowledge and practice of Buddhism has changed?


Ajahn Pasanno  
47:06
Personally, I think it’s really maturing a lot. Of course, it’s America, you can’t say one thing about America. I mean, it’s it’s just everyday it’s a real mishmash. But the people that are drawn to a by Gary are the people that I come into contact with. minute, there’s a maturity that I see and a sincerity that is, is really, really quite wonderful. And, and, and people are getting into like, like, right, like, say today in the monastery. It was theirs. I think I’m not 100% Sure there’s a brother and sister came to spend a few days in the monastery, which I mean, there’s always people coming to stay and coming and going. And, and I think she’s maybe 18 and the brother is 1617. And they’re already practicing Buddhism and want to come up here and it’s just this to me, that’s amazing. And so there’s a range of of people, the range of ethnicities, range of ages, people coming to, to practice and they, I mean, we don’t we don’t advertise when people show up because they’ve heard of us or They’ve tracked us down through our website through or through YouTube channel. And, and and then they they show up here


Sol Hanna  
49:05
in 2018, you stepped away from the role of Abu Dhabi to carry us in the roll on to Ajahn, Karina, Damo and Generico. Both of these monks are American and mostly trained in the United States and indeed, mostly at abbia. Giri. I wanted to ask you how you feel about this milestone and what do you think it signifies for Buddhism in the US in general, that you can now be transferring leadership to monks who have trained mostly in the US.


Ajahn Pasanno  
49:42
I mean, I’m really happy about that. I think it’s a real sign of the Yeah, the maturing of of, of dhamma here in and Buddhism here in In America, that that such a thing is taking place and, and, you know, I think it bodes well for for, for the future so that yeah, just having having the home grown and that’s kind of being, you know, a by Gary has has you were so far away from everything that you know we have had some Thai monks come but but but not so many and not and it’s not so easy for them and we have had some monks from time to time say from England who come and spend some time but the vast majority have all been monks who have begun their training here and, and have continued and, and we tried to send people out as part of their training to have the experience of being in other monasteries, whether it’s in Europe or oriental Thailand and and and it’s very heartening that most of them want to come back and help out here.


Sol Hanna  
51:28
Coming out to the end of the interview, you’ve lived a life dedicated to the spiritual quest of a Buddhist monk. What advice would you give to someone who’s starting out on the Eightfold Path? And who may have an interest in ordaining as a monk or nun?


Ajahn Pasanno  
51:46
Well, I mean, if you’ve got an interest, go for


Sol Hanna  
51:51
simple advice, simple advice. Simple advice.


Ajahn Pasanno  
51:53
I mean, just just don’t, don’t think about it too much. Don’t try to don’t want it don’t try to find the perfect monastery. Don’t try to find the perfect teacher. Just try this out, try that out. Try that plays out try and see what what feels like a fit. And, and. But as I said, don’t, don’t think that there’s going to be some perfect place somewhere with a perfect teacher where all you need to do is go there and then you’ll awaken full awakening will be bestowed on you that doesn’t hurt. It’s not how it’s like agian chars are saying yes, people looking for the perfect place. It’s like, a turtle with a mustache.


Sol Hanna  
52:47
He’s never gonna find it. 


Ajahn Pasanno  
52:49
Never going to find where you’re looking for a turtle with a mustache and never going to find it. But you have to keep putting the attention on the practice and the training the inner reflection, the inner contemplation and, and, and then and also, I think one of the things that’s really important cuz you know, especially in Western culture, we’re so we’re such a success oriented, what success and failure oriented culture that that the but more measuring one’s development, not in terms of some idea or ideal of success, but just how does it feel? Do I feel more comfortable? Do I feel more happy in myself? Do I for feel more peaceful? Are there more skillful and beneficial qualities arising in me? That’s, that’s, that’s what one wants to be cultivating. And, and sometimes that’s difficult and sometimes it’s easy. Sometimes it’s quick, sometimes it’s slow. One really has to be patient with the process.


Sol Hanna  
54:11
That’s very wise advice. Thank you, John, for taking the time to join us on the podcast. I really appreciate it. And best wishes.


Ajahn Pasanno  
54:20
Wonderful talking with you. Yes, and best wishes to you

The Life and Legacy of Master Hsing Yun | Venerable Juefang

Treasure Mountain Podcast
Treasure Mountain Podcast
The Life and Legacy of Master Hsing Yun | Venerable Juefang







/

This episode is about the late, great Master Hsying Yun, a true dynamo of a monk, dedicated to the spreading of the teachings and practice of Buddhism in Taiwan, China and around the world. Master Hsing Yun has achieved so much in his lifetime that it is virtually impossible to relate but a small part of it here in the introduction. However, by way of offering a introducation, here is a quick outline some of his achievements in brief:

Starting in the 1950s, Hsing Yun started making many achievements at an early age. He taught numerous classes, built many schools for children, recorded the first Buddhist hymns, and was promoted as an executive in many Buddhist associations. In 1957, Hsing Yun established a Buddhist cultural center in which a variety of Buddhist books are published with training tools such as audio and visual aids. In 1959, Hsing Yun also supported the Tibetan movement against communist supression, and organized the first float parade in celebration of Wesak in Taiwan.

Perhaps one of Hsing Yun’s greatest achievements was his successful push for Wesak to become a national holiday in Taiwan, a wish that had been granted by former President Lee Teng-hui in 2000.

Master Hsing Yun was the founder and spiritual leader of Fo Guang Shan, a Buddhist organisation that has established around 300 temples and monasteries all over Taiwan, as well as in 12 other countries including China, the United States, Australia, South Africa, Canada, Brazil, Japan, Thailand, Malaysia, France, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom. He is also the author of 395 books in Chinese, many of which have been translated into other languages, notably to English. And all of this is just a brief outline, leaving out much of what Master Hsing Yun has achieved in his life.

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Finding Peace Amidst War: A Ukrainian Monk’s Story | Bhante Thithidhammo

Treasure Mountain Podcast
Treasure Mountain Podcast
Finding Peace Amidst War: A Ukrainian Monk’s Story | Bhante Thithidhammo







/

Joining us on this episode is a humble monk who was quietly practicing meditation in northern Thailand until he returned to his native Ukraine just three months before the Russian invasion in February 2022. Bhante Thithidhammo was born in the former Soviet Union in 1971. He was a reserved child who enjoyed spending time alone, reading and sometimes visiting Orthodox Christian monasteries for the quiet environment. At age 14, Bhante Thithidhammo and a friend became interested in the mysticism of Tibet and both decided they would like to be monks in Tibet. However it would not be until many years later whilst on a meditation retreat in Thailand when he decided to go forth as a samanera. After six month he disrobed and returned to Ukraine, however, life seemed unfulfilling and he returned to Thailand to ordain again in early 2015 in the Forest Tradition under his teacher Ajahn Suchart in northern Thailand.

[A transcript of this episode can be found on the Treasure Mountain Podcast website.]

Bhante Thithidhammo returned to Kyiv shortly before the Russian invasion on 24 February 2022 and experienced some hair raising situations as the Russian army closed in on his position near Kyiv. Despite enduring many difficulties along with millions of other Ukrainians, Bhante Thithidhammo bears no ill-will and thinks of Ukrainians and Russians (and all humans) as being like one big family. He has gone on to become a teacher to Ukrainians, Belorussians and Russians, both online and in person. He teaches both in Ukrainian and Russian, and is finding that there is an increasing interest in the teachings of Buddhism and practices like meditation.

Bhante Thithidhammo is kindly joining us today from Kyiv and we will be finding out a little about his experiences over the past year or so, and how the practice of Dhamma is helping people find peace amidst war.

[A transcript of this episode can be found on the Treasure Mountain Podcast website.]

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Thank you for listening to the Treasure Mountain Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode please share it with you friends. If you’d like to support me to produce this type of content in future, you can support my work by offering a tip or becoming a Supporter or Member of Treasure Mountain Podcast via the Ko-fi payment applet.

The Saintmaker: The Meaning and Purpose of the Sangha | with Ajahn Kovilo

Treasure Mountain Podcast
Treasure Mountain Podcast
The Saintmaker: The Meaning and Purpose of the Sangha | with Ajahn Kovilo







/

Joining us on this episode is a return guest, Ajahn Kovilo who is joining us from Dharma Realm Buddhist University in California. Ajahn Kovilo is an Ohio-born monk who, having been introduced to meditation through the Goenka tradition, first entered the monastery in 2006. After receiving full ordination from Ajahn Pasanno and Ajahn Amaro at Abhayagiri Buddhist Monastery in California in 2010, Ajahn Kovilo spent the next decade training at monasteries in the Ajahn Chah tradition in America and Thailand. In 2020, after a year practicing at a Pa Auk Sayadaw monastery, Ajahn Kovilo enrolled at the Dharma Realm Buddhist University in Ukiah, California where he is currently studying Pali and Sanskrit among other courses. Until the end of his formal studies, Ajahn Kovilo will be participating in the growing Clear Mountain Monastery community remotely and during Winter and Summer breaks. After finishing his studies, Ajahn Kovilo will join the community in person on a more regular basis.

Ajahn Kovilo is joining us today to discuss an institution that is often misunderstood in Western countries, even by practicing Buddhists in the West. That is, the Sangha, the community of ordained bhikkhus and bhikkhunis (monks and nuns). There are some in the West who say that we don’t even need a Sangha! But there is no denying that the Sangha was an integral feature of the Buddha Sasana from the very beginning, and indeed, to be a Buddhist is to have taken personal refuge with the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha! So what do we mean by the Sangha? And more importantly, what is it for? Join us in finding out more about the meaning and purpose of the Sangha with Ajahn Kovilo as we seek for the treasure within…

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Rainbodhi: Supporting the LGBTQIA+ Buddhist Community | Bhante Akaliko

Treasure Mountain Podcast
Treasure Mountain Podcast
Rainbodhi: Supporting the LGBTQIA+ Buddhist Community | Bhante Akaliko







/

Our return guest today on Treasure Mountain Podcast is Bhante Akaliko who is an Australian monk in the Theravada forest tradition. He is the spiritual director of Little Dust and founder of the Rainbodhi LGBTQIA+ Buddhist Community. Bhante Akāliko is also the spiritual advisor of Central West Buddhists and a chaplain at Western Sydney University. He sits on the boards of the Buddhist Council of NSW and the Federation of Australian Buddhist Councils.

Bhante Akaliko’s inspired project that we will be discussing today is Rainbodhi.

Rainbodhi is a spiritual friendship group for LGBTQIA+ Buddhists and an advocate for more inclusion and diversity in the broader Buddhist community. They offer meditation, Dhamma discussion and social events in a safe, supportive environment. Rainbodhi welcome everyone regardless of race, gender, sexuality, or ability. Rainbodhi is a non-sectarian Buddhist group, welcoming people from all faiths or with no faith. And all their events are free.

The Rainbodhi name combines two words; rainbow representing our diverse community and bodhi the Buddhist concept of Enlightenment. And it’s Rainbodhi that we will be discussing with Bhante Akaliko in this interview. So join us as we seek for the treasure within…

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Thank you for listening to the Treasure Mountain Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode please share it with you friends. If you’d like to support me to produce this type of content in future, you can support my work by offering a tip or becoming a Supporter or Member of Treasure Mountain Podcast via the Ko-fi payment applet.

Building the Great Stupa of Universal Compassion | Ian Green

Treasure Mountain Podcast
Treasure Mountain Podcast
Building the Great Stupa of Universal Compassion | Ian Green







/

Our guest today on Treasure Mountain is Ian Green, who is Chairman of the Great Stupa of Universal Compassion Ltd and Founder of the Jade Buddha for Universal Peace. Along with his wife Judy, he has been a Buddhist for over 40 years and a vegetarian for over 25 years.

Ian’s connection to Buddhism began with a visit to India in 1971. He has had the good fortune to meet many Buddhist teachers including Geshe Loden, Zasep Tulku, Lama Thubten Yeshe, Lama Zopa Rinpoche and Ayya Khema. In 1979 Ian completed the month long course at Kopan Monastery, in Kathmandu. Ian has continued his studies under many Buddhist masters to this day.

In the 1980 Ian’s father, Ed Green offered 50 acres of land to set up a Buddhist centre near Bendigo. This original 50 acres was later added to with further land from Ian’s mother and himself so that the Buddhist Centre in Bendigo is now 200 acres (85 hectares).

Ian was founding Director of Atisha Centre, he has served as board members of Tara Institute and Foundation for the Preservation of the Mahayana Tradition Inc. He is currently Chairman of the Great Stupa of Universal Compassion Ltd and Founder of the Jade Buddha for Universal peace.

Ian has received various awards for his international work for peace and is a recipient of the Order of Australia Medal.

It is the Great Stupa of Universal Compassion that is Ian Green’s Inspired Project that we are going to focus on in this episode, and as you’ll find out in this interview, and what its real meaning and purpose is.

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Dharma Is Simply Service | John Waite

Treasure Mountain Podcast
Treasure Mountain Podcast
Dharma Is Simply Service | John Waite







/

Our guest today on Treasure Mountain is John Waite who was born in post WW2 United Kingdom and brought up to be fiercely independent. From a young age he was searching for a better way to live in the world and was influenced by the simultaneously political and spiritual principles of Mahatma Gandhi. Travelling to India in the 1970s he was touched by the kindness of the Indian people despite their modest means. A chance meeting with His Holiness the Dalai Lama in Dharamsala was a turning point on his spiritual journey. Later Joh would go on a two-week meditation retreat in Queensland an was pleasantly surprised when every thorny question and challenge to the teacher was warmly received and returned with wise, well-considered answers. This led him to commit himself to the path of practice. He was influenced deeply by Lama Zopa’s emphasis and example of being of service to others. John put this philosophy into practice enthusiastically as a volunteer fire fighter, ambulance medic, trade union steward and later as the Director of Hayagriva Buddhist Centre in Perth for 17 years helping to bring many great Buddhist teachers to Australia and supporting his local community of practice.

John is an old friend of mine and we worked together to found the Buddhist Council of Western Australia around 2005, and we also participated in getting the Federation of Australian Buddhist Councils off the ground around the same time. Not only did I appreciate his calm and steady presence in the work we were doing to bring the various Buddhist groups together for a common cause, but also his insistence that all the Buddhist traditions have the same heart of dharma at their core. I think his attitude was prescient as we enter into this post-sectarian Buddhist renaissance in the twenty-first century.

And that’s why I wanted to interview him on the podcast. In one sense this interview is John Waite’s Spirit Story, about his path into practice, but on the other it’s telling a broader story about Buddhism as it moves into the West, specifically into Australia, and where it may be heading in future. I’m so glad you’ve joined us as we seek for the Dharma within…

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The Thai Forest Tradition: A Modern Buddhist Renaissance | Steven Towler

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Treasure Mountain Podcast
The Thai Forest Tradition: A Modern Buddhist Renaissance | Steven Towler







/

One of the most impactful traditions of Buddhism in the modern world is one that isn’t very good at publicity – but is very dedicated to practice. Despite it’s strict adherence to the principles of monastic discipline and the principles of Buddhist ethics, like for instance never selling the teachings, it has gained a huge grass roots following in many Western countries where people are drawn to its plain, simple honesty and dedication to the original principles of set out by the Buddha. I’m referring to the Thai Forest Tradition, and to help us understand the origins and practices of the Thai Forest Tradition I have as our guest, Steven Towler, who, at the age of 19 left his home in the UK to travel to Thailand to ordain as a bhikkhu in 1972. This was a time in which the Thai Forest Tradition was in full bloom, and the first Westerners were travelling to Thailand to practice and even ordain. Steven ordained at Wat Bovornives with Phra Khantipalo, and we on to have many great teachers, including the renowned meditation master Ajahn Thate. He’s still dedicated to the Thai Forest Tradition and practicing to this day, and he has translated several Dhamma books from Thai to English for the benefit of the community. He’s kindly joined us on the Treasure Mountain Podcast to offer his knowledge and insights into this tradition that continues to grow in popularity to this day.

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Thank you for listening to the Treasure Mountain Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode please share it with you friends. If you’d like to support me to produce this type of content in future, you can support my work by offering a tip or becoming a Supporter or Member of Treasure Mountain Podcast via the Ko-fi payment applet.

 

Little Dust: Finding a Buddhist Community in Far Away Places | Bhante Akaliko

Treasure Mountain Podcast
Treasure Mountain Podcast
Little Dust: Finding a Buddhist Community in Far Away Places | Bhante Akaliko







/

Our guest today on Treasure Mountain Podcast is Bhante Akaliko. Akāliko Bhikkhu is an Australian monk in the Theravada forest tradition. He is the spiritual director of Little Dust and founder of the Rainbodhi LGBTQIA+ Buddhist Community. Bhante Akāliko is also the spiritual advisor of Central West Buddhists and a chaplain at Western Sydney University. He sits on the boards of the Buddhist Council of NSW and the Federation of Australian Buddhist Councils.

Bhante Akāliko went forth as a monastic in 2016 and received full ordination with Ajahn Brahm at Bodhinyana monastery in 2017. He lived for several years with Bhante Sujato at the Monastery at the End of the World in Sydney and now lives as a wandering monk. He is now working on setting up the Little Dust Buddhist Community.

Little Dust connects communities across Australia to the Buddha’s teachings. It is aiming to create Dhamma and meditation events for Buddhists from diverse cultural backgrounds, as well as new Buddhists and the Buddh-ish. Little Dust aims to make Buddhism available to everyone, especially in regional and country areas where access to the Dhamma is limited.

So in this episode of Treasure Mountain Podcast we’re going to look at the work of Little Dust in working to develop communities of practice in outback Australia, but also to address the broader question of what to do to develop practice of Buddhism as both and individual and as small groups and communities to support one another in the dhamma.

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Thank you for listening to the Treasure Mountain Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode please share it with you friends. If you’d like to support me to produce this type of content in future, you can support my work by offering a tip or becoming a Supporter or Member of Treasure Mountain Podcast via the Ko-fi payment applet.

 

Heroes versus Celebrities in the Age of Social Media | Ayya Santussika

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Heroes versus Celebrities in the Age of Social Media | Ayya Santussika







/

From time immemorial we have looked up to heroes for guidance and as models of how to live an excellent life: people with virtues such as courage, patience, kindness and wisdom. But who are our heroes today? We live in an age of celebrity and social media influencers. But are celebrities and social media influencers our heroes?

To answer these questions and more, we have with us our return guest, Ayya Santussika from the Karuna Buddhist Vihara in northern California to discuss the topic of heroes versus celebrities in the age of social media.

And I think she is well qualified to speak on this topic having attained BS and MS degrees in computer science and worked as a software designer and developer for fifteen years in the San Francisco Bay Area, Ayya Santussika is well familiar with computers and the internet. But on the other hand, her search for deeper meaning and ways to be of service led her to train as an interfaith minister in a four-year seminary program that culminated in a Masters of Divinity degree. Later her quest led her to ordaining as a Buddhist nun, and Ayya Santussika has been a bhikkhuni since 2012. And she has kindly offered her time to reflect upon our current fascination with the rich and famous, and what this says about where we are at in a present culture, as well as search for nobler human qualities.

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How To Have Everything And Be Happy | Ajahn Hasapanna

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How To Have Everything And Be Happy | Ajahn Hasapanna







/

On this episode of Sage Advice we have as our guest, Ajahn Hasapanna of Dhammasara Monastery in Western Australia. Ajahn Hasapanna was born in Ipoh, Malaysia in 1960. During her days as a lay person she and her family generously supported Ajahn Sujato when he was practicing in Ipoh. The main influence in Ajahn Hasapanna’s spiritual development is the monastic lifestyle of the forest tradition. When Ajahn Hasapanna had developed enough courage and inspiration to become a nun, Ajahn Sujato pointed her towards joining Dhammasara Nuns Monastery.

She joined Dhammasara in 2002, beginning her monastic training as an Anagarika (a trainee nun). She then ordained as a Ten Precept Nun with Ajahn Vayama as her teacher. She subsequently ordained as a bhikkhuni in 2009 with Ayya Tathaaloka as her preceptor in a ceremony at Bodhinyana Monastery, WA, Australia.

Currently, Ajahn Hasapanna is the Abbot of Dhammasara Nuns Monastery and the Assistant Spiritual Director of The Buddhist Society of WA (Inc). She is heavily involved in teaching and training nuns, anagarikas and lay people. She is the main teacher to 18 monastic trainees at Dhammasara.

In this episode we are going to ask Ajahn Hasapanna the big one: how we can have everything and be happy! Yes, that’s right it is possible to have it all and be happy!

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Why Secular Buddhism Is Baloney! | Ajahn Brahmali

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Treasure Mountain Podcast
Why Secular Buddhism Is Baloney! | Ajahn Brahmali







/

Ajahn Brahmali is the guest on this episode to talk about how and why Secular Buddhism misrepresents the original teachings of the Buddha. This discussion goes in to some depth about the importance of understanding the place of karma and rebirth in the Buddha’s teachings, and how our views impact upon the way that we act, including upon our practice. There is also discussion about the role of mindfulness in Secular Buddhism, and how mindfulness is a good thing, but also, how we cannot practice Buddhism fully without other important factors of the Eightfold Path.

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Our Most Urgent Task – Ajahn Nissarano

Treasure Mountain Podcast
Treasure Mountain Podcast
Our Most Urgent Task - Ajahn Nissarano







/

In this episode of Sage Advice we have as our guest, Ajahn Nissarano who is coming to us from Newbury Monastery, which is just north-west of Melbourne, Australia.

Ajahn Nissarano was born in 1952 in Perth, Western Australia. In 1997, he was ordained by Ajahn Brahm as a novice monk and a year later took full ordination. This year will be his 25th Rains Retreat, Vassa. He lived in Sri Lanka from 2006 to 2019, for a total of 13 and half years. During that time, he lived for 8 years in a cave on the side of a mountain, surrounded by forest and going for alms round to the village below. He returned to Australia regularly to teach, primarily at the Buddhist Society of Victoria. In January 2021 he became the Senior Monk at Newbury Buddhist Monastery, outside Melbourne, which is run by the Buddhist Society of Victoria.

Ajahn Nissarano joins us on this episode of Sage Advice to discuss the topic “our most urgent task”. We are so busy these days, we often lose sight of the big picture. And we can become so distracting that we don’t even see what our most urgent task in life is. In this interview Ajahn Nissarano offers advice on what is most essential and urgent for us to focus on if we are to really develop the spiritual qualities.

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Is Mental Illness a Problem To Be Solved Or An Opportunity To Discover Our Inner World? – Li-Anne Tang

Treasure Mountain Podcast
Treasure Mountain Podcast
Is Mental Illness a Problem To Be Solved Or An Opportunity To Discover Our Inner World? - Li-Anne Tang







/

In this episode of Sage Advice we have as our guest, Li-Anne Tang from Perth, Western Australia.

Li-Anne Tang, Ph.D., is an experienced spiritual life coach, guide and mentor. Li-Anne’s life changed dramatically when she found herself in the midst of a dark night of the soul whilst raising her two young children. She searched the world and was fortunate to find wise and compassionate Buddhist meditation masters to guide her on her journey. At that time, she had already explored the depths of Western understanding through a Bachelor of Psychology, Master of Science, Ph.D. in neuropsychiatry and postgraduate training in psychoanalytic psychotherapy. Her subsequent practice under the tutelage of great meditation masters led her to the first of her spiritual awakenings. Since then, she has studied closely under numerous other masters, who have encouraged her to share her insights through her unique way of connecting with her students.

I hope that this episode of Sage Advice gets listeners to take a fresh look at mental illness from the point of view of spiritual practice, and I hope that this interview with Li-Anne Tang will help some people to stop asking “What’s wrong with me?”, and to start thinking “This difficult mind state I have at this time may be the opportunity I need to learn and to grow”.

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Meditating In The Mountains And Fjords of Norway – Ajahn Nitho

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Meditating In The Mountains And Fjords of Norway - Ajahn Nitho







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  • In this episode of Spirit Stories we have as our guest, Ajahn Nitho who is coming to us from the mountains near Ørsta in western Norway.

Ajahn Nitho was born on the west coast of Norway in 1970, and after finishing high school, attended the University of Bergen and to The Norwegian School of Economics and Business Administration. He then spent a few years working as a chief financial officer at various companies, and then spent two years of backpacking around the world. Having become interested in meditation, Ajahn Nitho travelled to Australia in 2007 to be ordained as a bhikkhu (a Buddhist monk), under Ajahn Brahm at the Buddhist Society of Western Australia (BSWA), Perth.

After one year as an anagarika, one year as a samanera (novice), Ajahn Nitho took higher ordination as a bhikkhu (monk) in 2009. After more than 10 years of training as a bhikkhu in Perth, and a few stays with Ajahn Ganha in Thailand, he has now returned to Oslo in Norway, where he currently resides.

Together with Jon Endre Mørk, he established the Buddhist Society of Oslo and Viken (ovbf.org) in 2021, and he is now teaching retreats and Buddhism various places in Norway, while building a Buddhist community there. The goal is to establish a centre in Norway for teaching and practise.

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Restoring The Bhikkhuni Sangha For Our Times – Ayya Tathālokā

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Treasure Mountain Podcast
Restoring The Bhikkhuni Sangha For Our Times - Ayya Tathālokā







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  • Welcome to Treasure Mountain, the podcast that inspires and guides people to find the the treasure within human experience. I’m your host Sol Hanna.
  • In this episode of Spirit Stories we have as our returning guest, Ayya Tathālokā from Dhammadharini Monastery and Aranya Bodhi Forest Hermitage in California.
  • Last week when we spoke with Ayya Tathālokā we found out about her journey from discovering Buddhism through many trials until finally being able to achieve her ideal of full ordination as a bhikkhuni. It’s a really interesting story of overcoming obstacles with some unexpected twists, and if you want to listen to that episode you can click on this link.
  • Ayya Tathālokā has a number of achievements and been actively involved in establishing and extending the opportunities for women to go forth and also take higher ordination in the Buddhist sangha. In this episode we are going to find out about her journey since higher ordination and the work she has done and continues to do to expand opportunities for women to ordain and practice in an authentic manner that is true to the bhikkhuni vinaya – the monastic rules for Buddhist nuns. In the process we will also find out about the rapidly evolving opportunities for women within Buddhism as a result of the work being done by leaders like Ayya Tathālokā.

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Determination To Live The Holy Life – Ayya Tathālokā

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Treasure Mountain Podcast
Determination To Live The Holy Life - Ayya Tathālokā







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On this episode of Spirit Stories we have as our guest, Ayya Tathālokā from Aranya Bodhi Awakening Forest Hermitage in California. Ayya Tathālokā was born in Washington, DC in 1968 to environmentally-minded scientist parents. In 1988, at age nineteen, urgently inspired by the sudden death of an associate, she left her Pre-naturopathic Medical studies in university and made her way first to Europe and then on to India, entering monastic life as an white robed anagarika and then two years later undertaking ten-precept nuns ordination. Wishing to connect with the ancient lineage of the Bhikkhuni Sangha, she sought and found her female mentor in Buddhist monastic life in South Korea, the most venerable bhikkhuni elder Myeong Seong Sunim (和法界 明星), who gave her the name “Tatha-alokā”, and went on to train under her mentorship for ten years.

Returning to the United States in 1996, with her bhikkhuni mentor’s blessings, in 1997 in Los Angeles, with an international gathering of bhikkhus, bhikkhunis, Dharma teachers and supporters in attendance, she received bhikkhuni higher ordination from the Sri Lankan bhikkhu sangha led by her preceptor, the Venerable Dr. Havanpola Ratanasara Nayaka Mahathero. Since then Venerable Tathālokā has focused on meditation, and on both the study and practice of Dhamma & Vinaya. Her meditation training in Theravada Buddhism has been largely with the masters of the Thai forest traditions stemming from Ajahn Mun Buridatta: Ajahn Maha Bua Nyanasampanno and teachers of the Ajahn Chah tradition, together with the Burmese mindfulness and insight masters of Sayadaw U Pandita’s tradition and meditation master Pa-auk Sayadaw. Overall, her practice and teachings are profoundly influenced by the Buddha’s own advice and injunctions as contained in the Early Buddhist suttas.

Recognizing the growing number of Theravadin bhikkhunis and samaneris in the United States and the true value of coming together in harmony, Ayya Tathālokā proposed and participated in the founding of the North American Bhikkhuni Association (NABA) in 2004. Several months later, she also participated in founding the first residential community for bhikkhunis in the western United States named “Dhammadharini”. Ayya Tathālokā is the first Western woman to be appointed as a Theravada Bhikkhuni Preceptor, and she has contributed to the going forth and full ordination of more than 50 women as nuns in the USA, Australia, India, and Thailand.

Ayya Tathālokā’s primary role is as the founding abbess and preceptor of both the Dhammadharini Monastery at the western foot of Sonoma Mountain in Penngrove and the Aranya Bodhi Awakening Forest Hermitage on the Sonoma Coast in Northern California, where she provides Dhamma and meditation teaching and guidance, and monastic mentorship. And since 2021, she has been actively invovled in the United Theravada Bhikkhuni Sangha International working group together with other international bhikkhuni preceptors and leaders of Theravada traditions.

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The Greatest Investment Of A Lifetime – Ajahn Brahmali

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The Greatest Investment Of A Lifetime - Ajahn Brahmali







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On this episode of Sage Advice we have as our guest, Ajahn Brahmali from Bodhinyana Monastery in Western Australia. Ajahn Brahmali was born in Norway in 1964 and first became interested in Buddhism when travelling to Japan in his 20s. After completing university degrees in finance and engineering he decided that his true calling was the dedicated spiritual life of a bhikkhu – a Buddhist monk. Having heard the teachings of Ajahn Brahm he travelled to Western Australia in 1994 and took higher ordination in 1996.

Ajahn Brahmali is both a dedicated meditator and has a love for the teachings of the Buddha, and he has become widely respected for his work in both translating Buddhist texts, but also explaining the context of Early Buddhism to modern audiences. He has co-authored the book ‘The Authenticity of Early Buddhist Texts’ with Bhikkhu Sujato.

Ajahn Brahmali’s clear and thoughtful talks make the teachings of the Buddha easily accessible to all. And I personally recommend the Early Buddhism Series of teachings that I’ll be linking to in the description below.

Bearing in mind that Ajahn Brahmali has a degree in finance, in this episode he will be sharing his wisdom and experience on what the greatest investment of a lifetime really is.

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Sewing The Seeds of Buddhism in Poland – Piotr Jagodziński

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Sewing The Seeds of Buddhism in Poland - Piotr Jagodziński







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On this episode of Spirit Stories we have as our guest, Piotr Jagodziński from the Poland who has led the establishment and growth of the Sasana.pl website and youtube channel that has been translating the teachers of the forest tradition into Polish and getting an astonishing amount of traffic! Recently Piotr is leading efforts to establish a monastery in the Theravada tradition. Piotr is a true pioneer of the Buddhist Sasana in Poland and has supported thousands of people to connect with this authentic spiritual tradition and develop their own practice.

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Dhamma Found In Translation In Eastern Europe – Radan Kuča

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Dhamma Found In Translation In Eastern Europe - Radan Kuča







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On this episode of Spirit Stories we have as our guest, Radan Kuča from the Czech Republic who has kickstarted interest in Buddhism by setting up the channel Ajahn Brahm Cesky to translate teachings into the Czech language. As you’ll find out this effort has already had a big impact and may already be spilling over into similar efforts for Ukrainian translations.

This interview has information about:

  • Radan’s challenges in finding out about Buddhism in a country with almost no organisations in Czechia
  • what inspired Radan to start a channel to translate the teachings of Ajahn Brahm, and how he he and fellow volunteers have gone about doing this and making it really successful in just a year and a half
  • how the Russian invasion of neighbouring Ukraine has impacted the Czech Republic and what Czech people have been doing to help Ukrainians, as well efforts to start translating Buddhist teachings into Ukrainian to help Ukrainians coping with the trauma of war.
  • and what is coming next for the Czech and Ukrainian Buddhist channels.

 

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Bringing Early Buddhism to Life in Modern America – Ajahn Kovilo & Bhante Nisabho

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Bringing Early Buddhism to Life in Modern America - Ajahn Kovilo & Bhante Nisabho







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On this episode of Treasure Mountain we have Ajahn Kovilo and Venerable Nisabho who are both American monks that have trained in the Thai Forest Tradition in Asia and the United States. Together Ajahn Kovilo and Venerable Nisabho have the shared aspiration of establishing Clear Mountain Monastery in the vicinity of Seattle in the north-west United States. They have also set up a top quality online teaching presence through their Clear Mountain Dhamma youtube channel and podcast, and we’re going to find out about how they hope to take their experience of authentic Buddhist communities based around the principles of Early Buddhism and apply them in modern America.

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What’s the point of faith? – Ayya Santussika

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What’s the point of faith? - Ayya Santussika







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On this episode of Sage Advice we have as our return guest, Venerable Santussika, the abbott of Karuna Vihara in northern California to offer sage advice on what role, if any, does faith play in the Eightfold Path of Buddhist practice.

Ayya Santussika was born in Illinois in 1954 and grew up on a farm in Indiana. While being a single mother, she received BS and MS degrees in computer science. She worked as a software designer and developer for fifteen years in the San Francisco Bay Area. Her search for deeper meaning and ways to be of service led her to train as an interfaith minister in a four-year seminary program that culminated in a Masters of Divinity degree. She began traveling in Asia from 1999, learning from master teachers, particularly in Thailand. It was these experiences, along with time spent at Abhayagiri Buddhist Monastery in California that caused her faith to develop to the point of choosing to live and practice as a Theravadan nun.

Ayya Santussika entered monastic life as an anagarika (eight-precept nun) in 2005, then ordained as a samaneri (ten-precept nun) in 2010 and a bhikkhuni (311 rules) in 2012 at Dharma Vijaya Buddhist Vihara in Los Angeles. She has trained in large and small communities of nuns, including Amaravati and Chithurst monasteries of the Ajahn Chah tradition in England.

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Guided By Faith – Ayya Santussika

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Treasure Mountain Podcast
Guided By Faith - Ayya Santussika







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On this episode of Spirit Stories our guest is Ayya Santussika, the abbott of Karuna Buddhist Vihara in northern California.

Ayya Santussika was born in Illinois in 1954 and grew up on a farm in Indiana. While being a single mother, she received BS and MS degrees in computer science. She worked as a software designer and developer for fifteen years in the San Francisco Bay Area. Her search for deeper meaning and ways to be of service led her to train as an interfaith minister in a four-year seminary program that culminated in a Masters of Divinity degree. She began traveling in Asia from 1999, learning from master teachers, particularly in Thailand. It was these experiences, along with time spent at Abhayagiri Buddhist Monastery in California that caused her faith to develop to the point of choosing to live and practice as a Theravadan nun.

Ayya Santussika entered monastic life as an anagarika (eight-precept nun) in 2005, then ordained as a samaneri (ten-precept nun) in 2010 and a bhikkhuni (311 rules) in 2012 at Dharma Vijaya Buddhist Vihara in Los Angeles. She has trained in large and small communities of nuns, including Amaravati and Chithurst monasteries of the Ajahn Chah tradition in England.

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Nurturing a Buddhist Community – Dennis Sheppard

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Treasure Mountain Podcast
Nurturing a Buddhist Community - Dennis Sheppard







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On this episode of Treasure Mountain Podcast we have a guest who has been a mentor to me and remains a personal friend. Dennis Sheppard has been involved with Buddhist community since 1978, joining with the Buddhist Society of Western Australia as a young man interested in meditation and spiritual practice, and going on to serve multiple terms as president, as well as serving in several other capacities including designing several buildings for both monastics and the lay community.

In this interview with Dennis Sheppard:

  • Getting involved with Buddhism in Australia in the late 1970s and what that was like
  • Sending lay people to Thailand to request Ajahn Chah to send monks to Australia
  • How Ajahn Jagaro changed the Buddhist Society of WA and his lasting legacy
  • The impact of Ajahn Jagaro’s departure and the commencement of Ajahn Brahm’s tenure as Spiritual Director
  • What the early years of the Buddhist Society of WA were like, the challenges they faced and how they overcame them.

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Developing Resilience with Ayya Canda

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Treasure Mountain Podcast
Developing Resilience with Ayya Canda







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In this episode of Sage Advice, we have Bhikkhuni Candavisuddhi, known as Venerable Canda, the pioneering nun blazing a trail for women monastics by striving to establish the Anukampa project, a monastery for fully ordained nuns in the United Kingdom. Those who previously listened to Venerable Canda’s story in a previous episode of Treasure Mountain will know that she has a lot grit to practice in challenging circumstances, and now to lead the way to establish a community of practice, and eventually a monastery in the UK. One quality that she has demonstrated in large measure is resilience, and she joins us today for this episode of Sage Advice to discuss the topic of resilience and determination.

Ayya Canda’s links:

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web: https://www.treasuremountain.info/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TreasureMountainPodcast
 
 

Blazing a trail for women monastics in the UK – Bhikkhuni Canda

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Blazing a trail for women monastics in the UK - Bhikkhuni Canda







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In this episode of Spirit Stories our guest is Venerable Candavisuddhi, also known as Ayya Canda, who first encountered meditation and the spiritual path when travelling through Asia as a young woman. This led to several years of going on and supporting retreats in India and Nepal. Whilst the yearning to live the Buddhist monastic life intensified, she found that opportunities for women to lead a meditative monastic life were few, until finding out about a chance to ordain with Sayadaw U Pannyajota in rural Burma. The meditative life suited Venerable Canda very well, but four years of the Burmese climate, diet and parasites took a toll on her health, and she decided to return to the West. A chance encounter led Venerable Canda to the teachings of Ajahn Brahm, and the opportunity to practice and take higher ordination at Dhammasara Monastery in Western Australia in 2014. Now she is blazing a trail for women monastics by leading a project to start a monastery for bhikkhuni sangha in the country of her birth, the United Kingdom. Venerable Canda joins us now to share her Spirit Story.

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Giving From The Heart – Bhikkhu Mettaji

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Giving From The Heart - Bhikkhu Mettaji







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On this episode of Sage Advice, Venerable Mettaji returns to offer his advice on the topic of giving from the heart.

 

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A Journey Into Loving Service – Bhikkhu Mettaji

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A Journey Into Loving Service - Bhikkhu Mettaji







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In this episode our guest is Venerable Mettaji, formerly Stephen Mayers, a man who has had a journey from the heights of corporate success down into the valley of trial and loss. This has led him on to ordaining as a bhikkhu – a Buddhist monk – later in life. But through all the ups and downs of Venerable Mettaji’s journey there has been a will to serve others stemming from a well-spring of kindness. In this episode we’re going to learn about that journey and some of the unexpected ways behind the scenes that he is serving the growing Buddhist community in Australia with a heart of kindness.

 

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Finding a way back to peace when everything falls apart – Bhikkhu Mudu – Sage Advice

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Finding a way back to peace when everything falls apart - Bhikkhu Mudu - Sage Advice







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In this episode of Sage Advice, we have Venerable Mudu from Bodhinyana Great Southern calling in from the deep south of Western Australia, here to share his advice on finding a way back to peace when everything falls apart.

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Pioneering a dhamma community in a regional town with Bhikkhu Mudu – Spirit Stories

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Treasure Mountain Podcast
Pioneering a dhamma community in a regional town with Bhikkhu Mudu - Spirit Stories







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In this episode of Spirit Stories our guest is Venerable Mudu who is leading an effort to establish a community of practice in the Great Southern region of Western Australia. Venerable Mudu first became interested in Buddhism when a chance invitation by a Thai friend to join her in offering food to the Buddhist monks at Serpentine’s Forest Monastery. He became inspired by the monastic way of life. Several years later after developing an understanding the importance of meditation and renunciation, he decided to take up the training to become a Buddhist monk.

In 2014, after completing the two year trial and preliminary training, Venerable Mudu received the higher ordination as a fully ordained Bhikkhu under his teacher and preceptor, Ajahn Brahm at Bodhinyana Buddhist Monastery. In 2018 he went to Albany at the request of community members there, and has since established Bodhinyana Great Southern Hermitage and he teaches regularly in Albany, as well as frequent visit to Denmark, Walpole and Mt Barker, all in the Great Southern region in the far south of Western Australia.

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Introduction to Treasure Mountain

Treasure Mountain Podcast
Treasure Mountain Podcast
Introduction to Treasure Mountain







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Hello and welcome to the Treasure Mountain Podcast. I’m your host Sol Hanna, broadcasting from the South-West of Western Australia, with the hope of reaching out across the world to explore the many individual paths of spiritual development, and to celebrate those leading Buddhist communities at a time of great change in the 21st century. This inaugural episode will be a brief introduction to what the Treasure Mountain podcast will be exploring in the coming weeks and months. I’m so glad you’ve chosen to join us, as we seek for the treasure within.